...The Chicken or the Egg
There seems to be a point of great concern in the Pret-Idealist argument. Which really came first, the natural or the spiritual. Now I know, as anyone else does, that it is the natural that comes first for human kind. God created the world, He created the natural body and then would come the spirit. He created physical life followed by spiritual life, etc.However, this was told to us by Paul, so that we, natural human beings, can understand that we must live this natural life first, and then taste of the heavenly eternal life second. But did Paul give us this statement to tell us it is the natural things that came first, period?Meaning: Can we not say it is the spiritual that was first? That in God's time, He was a spiritual being, and that heavenly truths existed long before those natural patterns were made to reveal the spiritual to us? Does that type of thinking truly contradict what Paul taught us? Or now with the eyes of a spiritual man, can we see that the natural was never the first, but only a copy of what existed long before time came into being?So now we get into "what is truth?"
God always existed. Spiritual truths were always true. God did not create them patterned after the natural man, it was vice versa. So what makes things true?Apply that consistent thought to everything we debate in the preterist circle. Is my salvation true "because" AD 70 was accomplished? If AD 70 was SECOND in the terms of what exists as truth or not, then isn't it better to say that AD 70 was accomplished BECAUSE my redemption was true and that fact needed to be revealed to the world? Which came first?
Matt 13:34 Jesus told the crowds all these things in parables, and He would not speak anything to them without a parable, 35 so that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled: I will open My mouth in parables; I will declare things kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Mt 25:34 - Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavens, in Christ; 4 for He chose us in Him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in His sight.
I understand that all things that were declared, all secrets that were kept, and all righteousness that was bestowed, had to come into form here in this world. I get the necessity of AD 70. But the argument is completely valid, and the question warranted. Where do we put the value of the truth. In the event? Or the pre-existing fact, kept in secret, from the very beginning. Is it us in AD 2006 seeing the cross made of wood, and the temple made of stone that crumbled, that can boast, because of those events (AD 30-70), that our salvation is true? Or was it true, because God declared it before the foundation of the world ever existed.
God Bless
Nate
There seems to be a point of great concern in the Pret-Idealist argument. Which really came first, the natural or the spiritual. Now I know, as anyone else does, that it is the natural that comes first for human kind. God created the world, He created the natural body and then would come the spirit. He created physical life followed by spiritual life, etc.However, this was told to us by Paul, so that we, natural human beings, can understand that we must live this natural life first, and then taste of the heavenly eternal life second. But did Paul give us this statement to tell us it is the natural things that came first, period?Meaning: Can we not say it is the spiritual that was first? That in God's time, He was a spiritual being, and that heavenly truths existed long before those natural patterns were made to reveal the spiritual to us? Does that type of thinking truly contradict what Paul taught us? Or now with the eyes of a spiritual man, can we see that the natural was never the first, but only a copy of what existed long before time came into being?So now we get into "what is truth?"
God always existed. Spiritual truths were always true. God did not create them patterned after the natural man, it was vice versa. So what makes things true?Apply that consistent thought to everything we debate in the preterist circle. Is my salvation true "because" AD 70 was accomplished? If AD 70 was SECOND in the terms of what exists as truth or not, then isn't it better to say that AD 70 was accomplished BECAUSE my redemption was true and that fact needed to be revealed to the world? Which came first?
Matt 13:34 Jesus told the crowds all these things in parables, and He would not speak anything to them without a parable, 35 so that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled: I will open My mouth in parables; I will declare things kept secret from the foundation of the world.
Mt 25:34 - Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavens, in Christ; 4 for He chose us in Him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in His sight.
I understand that all things that were declared, all secrets that were kept, and all righteousness that was bestowed, had to come into form here in this world. I get the necessity of AD 70. But the argument is completely valid, and the question warranted. Where do we put the value of the truth. In the event? Or the pre-existing fact, kept in secret, from the very beginning. Is it us in AD 2006 seeing the cross made of wood, and the temple made of stone that crumbled, that can boast, because of those events (AD 30-70), that our salvation is true? Or was it true, because God declared it before the foundation of the world ever existed.
God Bless
Nate
posted by Nathan DuBois | 8:00 AM
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