Why I Needed To Repent: A Letter To A Friend...Amongst Friends

"I get it now!" But do I really? There seems to be more to this than anyone is understanding. To think that the controversy started with a repentance. It was only until what was considered an o-fense, that this became a serious vs. a sincere discussion. I thought I got it, and then here I am again writing this.

The view of looking for the internal, personal, and spiritual meaning made perfect sense. It MAKES perfect sense. There is no harm brought in the view that still acknowledges the importance of the physical signs, but still advocates that they were only temporal revelations of an eternal truth. No harm, no foul. But I didn't see it. I didn't see the need to repent. It was just a matter of growing up. Does that require "repentance" from full preterism?

When that statement is uttered, it can be entirely personal. It does not mean that we ALL need to repent from it, just because one person saw that need for himself. However, it appears the problem is that if full preterism is a system requiring "turning" away from, then isn't it worth turning from for all people?

Yes and no! Do we have any problem telling Arminians that we left there view (ie. turned away from/repented of) and embraced reformed theology? Does this mean they should all repent? Let your own heart judge. Should they be offended that we tell them we are no longer arminian? The responses of some recently should judge themselves.

Here is why a deeply personal, self-appointed statement of repentance was also a call from God for me to do so as well.

Full Preterism Is Today's Thomas

John 20:26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!" 27 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

All full preterists seem to embrace that if the AD 70 Parousia is not true, then Christ was not the Messiah. This is a view I held. C.S. Lewis and his coments required an answer. And full preterism has it. However, that makes us Thomas! We put the hand in the side, and we believed. The reason futurist arminians are still saved, is because they do not see anything but Christ crucified, and their need to repent, and they believe. They do not see the completed work of Christ, yet they believe it. God Bless Them.

Being Thomas has it's benefits and it's disadvantages. We should be broken because our disbelief is even a possibility! Yes, without AD 70 we would not believe Christ or the God of Abraham. But in the brokenness recieved at sight, we can have a knowledge beyond faith. We can SEE the Parousia and praise God and thank him more than anyone who is waiting. Thomas became an apostle, he was still blessed! After he saw he was guided by the Spirit to the upper room, where the Spirit of truth guided him. AFTER he "saw."

I still see the emphasis that God's truth does not require, nor favor, the sight. It favors the faith beyond it.

What We See Can Mislead

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples: 2 "The scribes and the Pharisees are seated in the chair of Moses. 3 Therefore do and observe whatever they tell you. But don't do what they do, because they don't do what they say. 4 They tie up heavy loads that are hard to carry and put them on people's shoulders, but they themselves aren't willing to lift a finger to move them. 5 They do everything to be observed by others: They enlarge their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels. 6 They love the place of honor at banquets, the front seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called ' Rabbi' by people.

The priesthood saw the law. It was what they observed and taught. They loved it, paraded it, prized it. Yet Christ saw their shortfall. They could not see beyond the law. They were rebuked for it. Christ's first teaching that we have is His revelation of the heart of God concerning the law. Though the priest could see the law, they could not glimpse the heart of God.

Matt 5:17 "Don't assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For I assure you: Until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or one stroke of a letter will pass from the law until all things are accomplished. 19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches people to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever practices and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

What was posted concerning Matthew 23 is why they needed to exceed the Pharisees righteousness. They did not see the heart and intent of the law. They loved their position, they loved the glory of the physical things and fleshly power they wielded, but they did not love God or the heart of God.

This is why Christ emphasised...
Matt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to our ancestors, You shall not murder , and whoever murders will be subject to judgment. 22 But I tell you...

Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultery. 28 But I tell you...

Matt 5:33 "Again, you have heard that it was said to our ancestors, You must not break your oath, but you must keep your oaths to the Lord. 34 But I tell you...

etc.

They "saw" Christ, but they did not see Christ!

John 5:37 The Father who sent Me has Himself testified about Me. You have not heard His voice at any time, and you haven't seen His form. 38 You don't have His word living in you, because you don't believe the One He sent.

John 6:35 "I am the bread of life," Jesus told them. "No one who comes to Me will ever be hungry, and no one who believes in Me will ever be thirsty again. 36 But as I told you, you've seen Me, and yet you do not believe.

Why I Repented

So what am I trying to say? What is the point of this letter? Am I saying full preterists are the Pharisees of today?

NO!

But I am saying I AM ONE!

I was so caught up in the system of things that I could SEE that I was missing, and causing others to miss, the things that can only be seen by the heart. I saw the purpose and will of God in AD 70, the "new" (though very old) law of God being advented, but I missed the heart behind it. I have been guilty of Phariseeism.

Matt 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You lock up the kingdom of heaven from people. For you don't go in, and you don't allow those entering to go in.

There are people out there who long to see. I have been asked and have not answered. I tried to show them a road of the flesh. Answers like "we don't sin anymore, because if we are in the new covenant, we are perfected because the temple in Jerusalem fell when Christ said it would." However the believer knows he is forgiven, and yet knows he is far from perfect. What kind of answer is that? That I tell a person that they are "resurrected and therefore do not struggle against the flesh," or against "Satan." How delusional have I been when they look at me and all along know they battle the flesh!!?!!

I was seeing with the mind and with the sight of men, not the sight of God. I praise God for the eternal truths now being taught to me. I will not bind myself to what can be seen by my intelect. I pray that God correct me in every avenue I approach, that I might see with the Spirit. For it is the Spirit which is the point.

1 Corinthians 2:10 Now God has revealed them to us by the Spirit, for the Spirit searches everything, even the deep things of God.

1Corinthians 2:13 We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.

2Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life.

Ephesians 1:17 I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, would give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened so you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the glorious riches of His inheritance among the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of His power to us who believe, according to the working of His vast strength. 20 He demonstrated this power in the Messiah by raising Him from the dead and seating Him at His right hand in the heavens -- 21 far above every ruler and authority, power and dominion, and every title given, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And He put everything under His feet and appointed Him as head over everything for the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of the One who fills all things in every way.

The Spirit is life, the Spirit is truth. When AD 70 occured, it revealed this to the world. Some already had a removed veil even before the physical one was removed. I saw the significance, yet I missed the "fulfillment." I taught a sight of men in a system of the temporal, and ignored the sight of the spirit in the revelation of the eternal. Yes, I needed to repent. Let each man judge for himself in his own heart whether he should also. For it is God who brings judgment on the heart, not me.

So Thank You...Friend!

...for going out on the limb and sharing your heart. If the kingdom dwells in the heart and is revealed through men, then you were used. So thank you for the fellowship and help. As I have said, if we stopped learning how boring would life be.

God Bless
Nate

God, The Judge Of The Heart

How can God judge the world with an event like AD 70?

It is said that the hidden things would be judged, the inner thoughts would be judged, the world would be judged. How is this possible through the destruction of a temple? And more importantly, how can we, beyond the "end times" (supposedly), be judged according to that judgment which came at the Parousia?

I had a previous assumption; chronologically every man living or dead or yet to be born was judged in AD 70, and that judgment was applied at that time forever. That the effects of that judgment are felt throughout time. This was an easy answer to satisfy my purely chronological view of events of both the earthly and heavenly things.

My question now is, how is that judgment carried out by the destruction of a temple, especially when the names of the righteous were already written in the book of life from the foundation?

For whom was this judgment?
Did God make this judgment in AD 70 because He needed to scrub His book and make a decision?
Had not God's will already judged that Abraham and David and such WERE righteous?

It is only for OUR purposes that we are judged! It is the revealing of the truth to our hearts and by that, we are condemned or made righteous. That judgment takes place in the heart.

In AD 70, a Jew may not have been in Jerusalem, or put to death by the Romans, to have been judged by Christ in His appearance. All a Jew had to see was the vindication of Christ. All he had to know in his heart was that he was on the wrong side of the temple. That his law and his covenant were meaningless because they were fulfilled by Christ whom he had rejected.

Judgment came to the world, because all are judged by the gospel and their response to it. It is the SAME WAY that men are judged today. There is no difference, and it continues.

1Co 4:5 - Therefore don't judge anything prematurely, before the Lord comes, who will both bring to light what is hidden in darkness and reveal the intentions of the hearts. And then praise will come to each one from God.

John 7:24 - Stop judging according to outward appearances; rather judge according to righteous judgment."

This is the only possible way for all men to be judged or to have been judged at that time, both the living and the dead.

The gospel is living, it is active. Today men are judged righteous or unrighteous by being "in Christ" or not.Judgment accompanied the kingdom because it was at the "revelation of Christ" in AD 70, to the world, that men were judged by the gospel vs. the law. The law had been given to the Jew, and until Christ, it had been made known that the Jew would be judged by the law. But Christ came, fulfilling the law, and revealed that it was by the heart of men that we are judged. Though a Jew might have followed the letter of the law externally, his heart had broken that same law. This is all over Matthew 5-7. So until Christ was revealed in glory in AD 70 to the world as the true messiah, even to the unbelieving Jew, that law "stood in the way." The Jewish system had to be destroyed in order for those whose hearts were hardened to see that Christ was the true Messiah, that it was by their response to the gospel in their hearts that they have been condemned or made righteous. The revelation of Christ in His kingdom brought that very judgment to the world.

The issue here is do we limit that judgment to an AD 70 timeline? Or is that same judgment every bit as active and ongoing today as ever?
Can we not say that the judgment was occurring before it was revealed?
Does it matter that it had not been revealed to the whole world yet if God was still judging Abraham by the response to God in His heart? Or David having a heart after God's own heart?

God did not change the way man was judged in AD 70, man had always been judged by the heart. It just had not been revealed to us through the gospel until Christ came and completed His work, which was the revelation of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The purpose and work of Christ was revelation. The revelation of God through Christ brought judgment, in His revelation came salvation. Christ was God, performing a mission of God, that mission was to reveal God to man. Judgment, the cross, the resurrection, was just an aspect of that revelation.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." 30 Therefore they said to Him, "What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' " F23 32 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world." 34 Then they said to Him, "Lord, give us this bread always." 35 And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. 7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him." 8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

God Bless
Nate

Does An Expanding Kingdom Mean the Kingdom Is Not In Its Fullness?

There is a HUGE difference beween a Kingdom that in and of itself is in its fullness (because Christ has accompllished all things needing to be accomplished), and a Kingdom that is expanding. The United states may grow again in territory someday, but does that mean the Constitution needs to be added to so that a new state can be represented? Absolutely not.

Let's see what Christ says about the kingdom.

Isa 9:7 - Of the increase of His government and peace There will be no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, To order it and establish it with judgment and justice From that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Matt 13:31 He presented another parable to them: "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. 32 It's the smallest of all the seeds, but when grown, it's taller than the vegetables and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the sky come and nest in its branches." 33 He told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into three measures of flour until it spread through all of it."

Matthew 25:14 "For it is just like a man going on a journey. He called his own slaves and turned over his possessions to them. 15 To one he gave five talents; to another, two; and to another, one--to each according to his own ability. Then he went on a journey. Immediately 16 the man who had received five talents went, put them to work, and earned five more. 17 In the same way the man with two earned two more. 18 But the man who had received one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground, and hid his master's money. 19 "After a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received five talents approached, presented five more talents, and said, 'Master, you gave me five talents. Look, I've earned five more talents.' 21 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Enter your master's joy!' 22 "Then the man with two talents also approached. He said, 'Master, you gave me two talents. Look, I've earned two more talents.' 23 "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave! You were faithful over a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Enter your master's joy!'

Rev 21:24The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it...25 Each day its gates will never close because it will never be night there.

Some people would argue that this is pre-AD70 and that the kingdom cannot be increasing today. Again, there is a difference between being "established" vs "growing". I believe the kingdom is established in fullness, there is no change to the covenants left to be made, however there are hearts to mend. There are souls to be saved yet today.

The kingdom dwells within each person and increases within each new believer. There is a reason the "church" lasts forever (Eph 3:21) and not just in heaven. There is a reason the gates never shut, because as people are born there will be more and more finding Gods glory and walking into the gates of the kingdom... into the light which never goes out!

God Bless
Nate

...The Chicken or the Egg

There seems to be a point of great concern in the Pret-Idealist argument. Which really came first, the natural or the spiritual. Now I know, as anyone else does, that it is the natural that comes first for human kind. God created the world, He created the natural body and then would come the spirit. He created physical life followed by spiritual life, etc.However, this was told to us by Paul, so that we, natural human beings, can understand that we must live this natural life first, and then taste of the heavenly eternal life second. But did Paul give us this statement to tell us it is the natural things that came first, period?Meaning: Can we not say it is the spiritual that was first? That in God's time, He was a spiritual being, and that heavenly truths existed long before those natural patterns were made to reveal the spiritual to us? Does that type of thinking truly contradict what Paul taught us? Or now with the eyes of a spiritual man, can we see that the natural was never the first, but only a copy of what existed long before time came into being?So now we get into "what is truth?"

God always existed. Spiritual truths were always true. God did not create them patterned after the natural man, it was vice versa. So what makes things true?Apply that consistent thought to everything we debate in the preterist circle. Is my salvation true "because" AD 70 was accomplished? If AD 70 was SECOND in the terms of what exists as truth or not, then isn't it better to say that AD 70 was accomplished BECAUSE my redemption was true and that fact needed to be revealed to the world? Which came first?

Matt 13:34 Jesus told the crowds all these things in parables, and He would not speak anything to them without a parable, 35 so that what was spoken through the prophet might be fulfilled: I will open My mouth in parables; I will declare things kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mt 25:34 - Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavens, in Christ; 4 for He chose us in Him, before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless in His sight.

I understand that all things that were declared, all secrets that were kept, and all righteousness that was bestowed, had to come into form here in this world. I get the necessity of AD 70. But the argument is completely valid, and the question warranted. Where do we put the value of the truth. In the event? Or the pre-existing fact, kept in secret, from the very beginning. Is it us in AD 2006 seeing the cross made of wood, and the temple made of stone that crumbled, that can boast, because of those events (AD 30-70), that our salvation is true? Or was it true, because God declared it before the foundation of the world ever existed.

God Bless
Nate

My Thoughts and Understanding of Preterist Idealism

"Preterist Idealism." Just another term in the sea of terms dividing one school of thought from another. What made this term, or method of thought, stand out from others that we needed to coin a new phrase? After all, if it is in line with the truth, should we not just call it "Christianity?" And is it really in line with the truth.

This term seems to have caused the hair on the back of some peoples neck to stand up. Some even more direct statements by certain individuals who have been developing their ideas of this concept are creating a stir. Can those who have been so deep into the preterist movement actually come out and say they are no longer full-preterists? And if someone says this, are they rejecting the truth, or stabing their once "fellow" preterists in the back?

I would like to offer my perspective on what "preterist idealism" is, and beg those who are upset and up in arms over the methodology to take note of the reason for this discussion. Some of which I am hoping to sum up in this statement: "Any theology which looks to the temporal things as its finality, any theology which takes ANY scripture and applies them to the temporal realm, and does not apply them to the spiritual truth behind it for which it was written, is an incorrect theology." I believe preterist idealism is the attempt to focus on the unending, eternal spiritual truths behind every last chapter and verse. It is not simply looking at the fulfillments of AD 70 and applying the results of those fulfillments to our lives, this focus is backwards. What we should be doing is taking AD 70 and seeing what aspect of God with man is being portrayed through that event. Where had God portrayed that truth in scripture before? Let me give an example.

What is the enmity between God and man? What separates us from God? Throughout scripture that was many things. From Adam hiding behind something in the garden to the angel that guarded the way back to the tree of life. The veil over the hearts of men and the curtain blocking out the holy place. The temple itself to the "god of this age" that blinded the eyes. So many things in scripture stood for that one thing that blocked man from God. What is the spiritual truth behind that message? Are men still separated from God today? What does it take to remove that separation? Being in Christ.

Now let's look at AD 70. The veil was already being lifted before AD 70, the curtain already torn, yet the priesthood with their monopoly of over the religious system of the day was in the way of people being converted. With the destruction of the temple, did that veil get lifted from the hearts of all men? Are all men saved? Some in the preterist camp believe that is so. Others argue that it was only for those who are saved. In both cases they have focused on the removal of the temple as the result of AD 70, as the finality. However that removal was only a sign in the temporal realm of a spiritual truth. That in Christ, all things in the way between God and man are torn down. That in Christ, there can be nothing in the way of our relationship woith God. That in Christ the haughty are made low, the self-righteous are humbled. It brings us back to Christ's direct teachings!! Nothing more, but certainly nothing less. Yet full-preterism to this point has been declaring less!!!

Pretersit idealism is an attempt to bring every scripture to that one boling point. What is the impact on "God with man" today, more importantly, for me as an individual. Every prophecy, every event, every story was about God revealing Himself to man. To take those events and box them up into finished little packages of one time occurances would be a mistake. Those events are not the consumation, they are the revelation.

God Bless

Nate